![]() Interviewer: Could you please tell me your name? With this knowledge, hopefully, we can prevent any such occurrence in the future. Pretaped announcement: The purpose of this interview is to add to the oral history of the Nazi Holocaust so that future generations will know what happened. ( With an ebullient lift at the end, the music floats away, quieter each moment, into the distance.) Longoria: This is The Experiment, a show about our unfinished country. He tells the story of his grandmother and her pain that once led Franklin to believe the narrative that Putin is spreading right now.įoer: But over the course of the years, as I ended up going back and back and back to Ukraine, I came to view my own myth-the story that I grew up with-as just simply wrong and the Putin version of events simply to be grotesque. This week, Atlantic writer Franklin Foer explores the history that Putin is distorting. So why would Putin tell this story? Who would it resonate with? Ukraine’s president, after all, is a Jewish man. Longoria: The story that Putin is telling his country and the whole world about why he’s invading what he calls a “Nazi” Ukraine is a distortion of history. And so that was the story that I grew up with. ( A piano plays a sparse melody over a muddied drum track, solemn and wistful.)įoer: My grandmother viewed the Ukrainians that she knew as Nazi collaborators. My mother came to this country as a little girl.įoer: So home-home had been Ukraine, but they didn’t see themselves as Ukrainian. Longoria: You are a second-generation immigrant to the U.S. ( As the applause fades, so does the soft guitar.) She had a real bounce in her step, despite having survived so many terrible things. Always in a very loud voice because she wasn’t totally convinced of the technology. She loved to talk to people on the telephone. (The audience laughs.)įoer: She was very warm. Stewart: So, one cup of matzo meal-but, now, what kind of matzo meal? What kind? ( Light, soft talk- show -acoustic guitar plays.) Longoria: Before she passed away, in December 2018, Ethel was a guest on the Martha Stewart Show. Martha Stewart: Now, we have Grandma Ethel here. As you might imagine, they don’t have a whole lot else in common. Longoria: Franklin’s grandma and Vladimir Putin happen to have a similar story that they’ve told themselves about Ukraine. Longoria: Franklin Foer is a staff writer at The Atlantic.įoer: Or, you know, thought that there was some truth to what he was saying, because I grew up with my grandmother’s stories. Longoria: I’m curious like, when you heard Putin say that he was going to “de-Nazi-ify” Ukraine, and that Ukraine was full of neo-Nazis, what went through your mind?įranklin Foer: When I heard Putin say that, I thought about my own journey with Ukraine, because there was a point not so long ago when I would have agreed with him. ![]() Then, with a blip and a click, the music and sounds fade to nothing.) ( The chanting becomes clearer: words in a Slavic language from a great crowd. NBC’s Matt Bodner: (Picking up where Blitzer left off.) -“de-Nazi-fy” the Ukrainian government, that they are, uh, a liberating force from, essentially, an oppressive Nazi government. ( Chanting, heavy voices repeat a refrain that cannot be made out.)ĬNN’s Wolf Blitzer: It’s a repeated refrain from Vladimir Putin and his acolytes. Translator: (Translating Putin’s speech.) Dear comrades: Your fathers, your grandfathers fought against the Nazis, not so that Nazis could now take over power in Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin: (Speaks in Russian.) ( Over long, low, ominous strings, a montage begins.) Julia Longoria: Just a heads-up: This is a story about the realities of war and genocide. Special thanks to Andy Lanset and Roberto De La Noval.Ī transcript of this episode is presented below: Reporting by Franklin Foer and Esther Foer. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at episode was produced by Salman Ahad Khan and Julia Longoria, with editing by Emily Botein. And if you’re outside the U.S., you can visit to find resources for your country.īe part of The Experiment. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 80. If you or someone you know is considering suicide or self-harm, please get help. This week, The Experiment tells the story of the Holocaust survivor Ethel Kaplan, and traces Franklin Foer’s own journey-how he once came to believe Putin’s myth, and his journey to Ukraine to debunk it.įurther reading: “ It’s Not ‘The’ Ukraine ,” I Want You to Know We’re Still Here: A Post-Holocaust Memoir. But Franklin was told a similar story his whole life from his grandmother. Putin referred to the “Nazification” of Ukraine-a distortion of history at best. ![]() As Putin invaded Ukraine last month, the Atlantic writer Franklin Foer found the Russian leader’s justification for violence uncanny.
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